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The Bible verses used to prove the "Pre-Trib" Rapture,
instead_prove the_ "Post-Trib" Rapture, _at
this conference held at Country Church in Redding, California,
and was attended by 800 men. Common sense should tell us that
there can’t be two 2nd Comings. Hebrews 9:28 (paraphrased)
"…He comes once as a suffering Messiah, then a 2nd time…
unto salvation." No 3rd time mentioned in God’s word, nor is
there any mention of dividing the 2nd coming into two events.
So, lets reason together, He has already been here once, which
would leave one more event, The 2nd Coming of Christ,
that the Bible clearly states occurs after the great tribulation.
Futhermore, there isn’t a single scripture in the entire Bible that
states Christians are removed before the Tribulation. If anyone
can find one, would you please Email me? Then, I promise you, I
would remove this webpage from every search engine. Please, no
assumptions, analogys or verses taken out of context.
The three senior pastors that spoke at this "Endtime Conference"
used nine scriptures to prove the "Pre-Trib" Rapture. However,
out of the nine they used, seven were taken out of context, and
the other two were based on assumptions._ Below are the nine
scriptures they used to "try" to prove the "Pre-Trib" Rapture:
(All verses quoted are KJV, but for an instant reference in the
English Standard (ESV), place the cursor on chapter and verse).
#1. I Corinthians 15:51-52
51"Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
Read the last two lines in the above verse slowly, think about the
"order" (sequence) God inspired Paul to list these three events:
#1 The Last Trump,#2 The Resurrection,#3 The Rapture,
(we shall be changed). Paul would have listed the Rapture 1st,
instead of 3rd, if this was to be a pre-tribulation Rapture. Also
Jesus says four times in John 6:39, 40, 44, 54, the resurrection
is on the Last day. So, if the Resurrection is on the Last Day,
as stated by Jesus, and in I Cor 15:52, Paul lists the Rapture
after the Resurrection. Paul has told us the "sequence" of
these (3) events and Jesus told us "when", (on the Last Day).
Is this such a difficult concept to comprehend??_Clearly, these
two verses teach a…..Post-Tribulation Rapture….. at the
2nd Coming of Christ. How can the Last Trumpet sound,
the Resurrection, and then the rapture happen, seven years
before the "Last Day" ? ?
#2. I Thes.4:16
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,
with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise 1st."
Again the word "trump" is used, but the Thessalonians were
unclear as to "when" this would happen. Paul apparently heard
that they were troubled about this, so he then wrote a _second
letter _to clear this up, and this reads as follows:
II Thes 2:1,2,3,4 (v-1) "today we beseech you, brothern, by
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering
together (Rapture) unto him,___ (v-2) That ye be not soon
shaken in mind,_or be troubled,_neither by spirit,_or by word,
nor by letter from us, _as that the _day of Christ_ is at hand.
(v-3) Let no man_deceive you_by any means: for_that day
shall not come_except there come a falling away 1st, and
that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition"(false Christ).
In this, 2nd letter, Paul, this time_ makes it _very clear
that the false Christ_ comes 1st,__and (v-3) not to let anyone
deceive you. Then, refering back to the 1st letter he wrote, then
(after false Christ) the Lord descends, with a shout, with the voice
of the arch angel, with the"trump" of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise 1st. This is the 2nd coming of Christ, after the
tribulation_ So, with this_second letter_ Paul is making it
clear that this "trump"_ is not before the tribulation _its
after!! Its a post-tribulation rapture, on the Last Day!!
#3. Revelation 3:10
"Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the hour of temptation, that shall come upon
all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Notice that Jesus says, "….I will keep thee from…." , He does
not say, "…take thee out of…" . So, for a better understanding
of Rev. 3:10, Lets prove the Bible, with the Bible, and not assume
anything._ Lets let Jesus clearify this verse, which He does in
John 17:15, "I pray not that thou take them out of the world,
but that thou should keep them from the evil."
Jesus clearly says__"not" to take them out__in John 17:15.
So, how can the_I will Keep thee from_of Rev. 3:10_ mean_
I will take thee out of_? As pre-trib teachers would have you
believe. Jesus does "not" contradict Himself !!__For the
Greek meaning of "Keep thee from". See side column Note #2->
All of the early church fathers taught that the "Antichrist" comes
1st (see link at the end of this post on "Early Church Fathers."
Gods wrath does not fall on us,"only those who had the mark
of the beast" (Rev 16:2). And those who "do not have the seal
of God" (Rev 9:4). Like the "144 thousand" of Rev. 7:3, we have
the seal of God._ See Eph.1:13 "….after you believed, you were
sealed……" And Eph.4:30 "……you are sealed unto the day of
redemption." There are several verses that clearly state, after we
accept Christ, we are sealed, (protected from Gods wrath).
#4. Matthew 24:27
"For as the lighting cometh out of the east, and shineth even
unto the west; so shall also the coming of the son of man be."
Go down two verses, Matt.24:29 tells you "when" this will be:
"Immediately__ after the tribulation__ of those days…."
today Matt.24:30 "….then shall appear the sign of the son of man
(Jesus)…" today Matt.24:31, "..with the great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together (rapture) his elect…." Again the
same trumpet as in other verses, today back to Matt.24:26, Jesus
tells them not to believe people that tell you that He (Jesus) is
in a secret place (like a secret pre-trib rapture). Matt.24:27
is another verse that was clearly taken out of context, Its a post
tribulation rapture, at the 2nd coming of Christ.
#5. Matthew 25:1-13
The parable of the "ten virgins"___ Here Jesus does not
talk about the "time" of His return, because He had just told
them a few minutes before about the time, (see the paragraph
before this one_Matt.24:29_definitely after the tribulation).
The marriage Feast can only take place after the tribulation,
because the Resurrection dosn’t happen until the Last day.
Jesus said four times that the Resurrection is on the Last
Day (John 6:39, 40, 44, 54). _ Then the bridegroom (church)
goes into the marriage feast after the 2nd coming of Christ,
and guess who else is at this marriage Feast?___1 The Old
Testament saints__2 The tribulation saints__3 The prophets.
4 The 144,000 brand new Christian Jews. There would have to be two
marriage feasts_two resurrections, and_two last days_ for the
"pre-trib" rapture to work. And_one verse_would also be nice!!
#6. Mark 13:6-37
In this entire chapter Jesus is talking about the events that
happen durning the tribulation, and that they were _not_ to
look for Him until_after_ certain events happen 1st, then in
Mark 13:24, 25, 26, 27, (paraphased) "…after the tribulation
of those days, then they shall see Him…" So Jesus again told
them He’s coming back after the tribulation, making this a post-
tribulation rapture at the 2nd Coming of Christ.
#7. Luke 21:6-38
Basically this chapter is the same as the above chapter, where
Jesus returns__after__the tribulation, at the 2nd coming of
Christ, except in v-36, He says, "….pray that you be accounted
worthy to escape all these things.."And we will, because we have
the seal of God, (Eph. 1:13, Eph. 4:30, II Cor 1:22, John 6:27).
We are protected (sealed) from Gods wrath, like the 144 thousand
of Revelation 7:4.
#8. II Peter 3:10
"…The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."
today lets let the Bible prove the Bible and go to I Thes. 5:2, where
the exact same words are used, "…the Day of the Lord so cometh
as a thief in the night." Then in I Thes.5:4, (paraphased) "But
[we] are not in darkness that this day should overtake [us] as a
thief." Why? Because I Thes.5:5 "… [we] are children of the light."
And Jesus says "Behold I come as a thief" right after the 6th
Vial is poured out at the end of the tribulation (Rev.16:12,15).
And this begins the Last Day. (I inserted "we" for "you" because
Peter and Pauls letters were to the Gentiles (non Jews_"us").
#9. Revelation 22:12
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me." So,
when does He give out rewards? See Rev. 11:15, 18, "And the
7th angel sounded…[its time]…that thou give rewards…unto
the saints…"_Its after the 7th trump!!__At the end!!
Rewards are given out after the post-resurrection rapture,
after the 2nd Coming of Christ.
today, all of the (9) verse references listed above, was all
that was presented to prove the "Pre-Trib" rapture
by the three pastors at this conference. You can see
that they were all taken out of context, or based
on assumptions. God was very angry with the
ten spies, who made Israel fear the Giants that were in
the land that God promised them (Num.13:1-2), and_they
were afraid to go in (Num.13:31,32,33). We are doing the
same thing today, by fearing the "Giant" (anti-Christ) _we add
"pre-trib" to Gods word, without a single verse to prove it,
this is very dangerous, (see Rev. 22:18). It is not my intent to
belittle these three pastors, I am sure they are sincere Christians,
but if they can’t come up with one single verse that specificy
places this event before the tribulation, who can?_can you?
Its really very simple, if its not in Gods word, its not going to
happen. Again, I want to repeat that these nine scriptures were
all that was used to prove the "pre-trib" rapture that day, I was
there! The senior pastor of this church has read this article, (the
nine verses) and made a comment to me via Email, and he did not
question that these verses were all that was used to support this.
Note: The "pre-trib" view is a brand new doctrine, you will not find
pre-trib writings or documents in any church history until about
the year 1830. Edward Irving, (Catholic Apostolic Church) and
soon after, John Darby, (Plymouth Brethren) both of England,
were teaching the pre-tribulation rapture. _However, the most
important reason for the acceptance of this "pre-trib" rapture
view in the United States was the Scofield Reference Bible. In the
footnotes he split the 2nd coming of Christ into two events:
Coming for the saints, then (7yrs later) Coming with the saints (at
which time we enter into God’s millennium kingdom on earth). My
question is where do we go for the seven years? The Bible clearly
states (KJV)"The righteous (saints) shall never be removed: but
the wicked shall not inhabit the earth." (Prov.10:30) see also
Ps.37:29 and Prov.2:21-22.
Some may ask:_"what difference does it make if Christ returns
before the tribulation, or after"?_ There are sincere Christians on
both sides. However, the Bible says in I Thes.5:21, to "prove all
things."_And in II Tim.4:4,"And they shall turn away their ears
from the truth, and shall be turned into fables." (fiction) Like
the "Left Behind" book and movie, cars & planes crashing, etc.
Millions killed before the tribulation even starts, when all these
people still have/had a chance to be saved during this time. The
truth was Left Behind, in the making of this movie, yet it sells
well in the religious marketplaces. The "Pre-Trib" doctrine has
become amusement for the masses, a multi billion dollar business
If such a major event as the "pre-trib" Rapture is true, why
isn’t it found in Old Testament prophecy?__or in Jesus’s
own teachings?__ or His disciples?__or any of the brand new
Testament writers?__Jesus said in Mark 13:23,__ "I have
foretold you all things."__He would have told us!!
Others may say: "That the tribulation is only for the Jews,"
(the 144 thousand) and that they are the people that God uses in
this time to bring people to Christ. This may be true, in part, but
look at Rev. 7:1,2,3,4 where God puts a seal on this little group.
And because of this seal, they are protected!! The woman
(Israel) is protected in the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation
(Rev. 12:13-14). This, in turn, makes the sepent (Satan) angry,
so he goes after us in Rev.12:17, those who have "the testimony
of Jesus Christ." _Again, go back to Rev. 7:9, "After this (the
sealing of the 144000) I beheld, and look, a great multitude…
of all nations…". today skip to Rev.7:13, who are these people,
and where did they come from?_Then Rev.7:14, "these are
they that came out of great tribulation…". And God just
stated in Rev 12:13-14, that the woman(Israel, the 144,000 Jews)
are protected. So, who do you think this great multitude is that
has the "testimony of Jesus Christ", if its not us??
So, there are untold millions, along with the Jews that are in
this period of time. To say this time is only for the Jews is another
assumption and not valid. They base this on Isaiah 45:4, where
Israel is called Gods "elect" (in the KJV) so then in Matt. 24:31,
when Jesus sends his angels to gather His "elect" after the
tribulation, that this event (the 2nd coming of Christ) is only
for the Jews who have to go through the tribulation.__ After we
(non Jews) accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our saviour, we then
become Gods "elect."__ I will back up this statement with
Pauls letters to non Jews, the Galatians and the Colossians :
1. Gal.3:28-29 (paraphrased)"There is neither Jew or Greek,you
are all one in Christ…you also are Abrahams seed…"(elect)
.2. Col 3:11-12, "….there is neither Greek or Jew….but Christ
is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the __Elect of God…."
.3. I Peter 1:1-2, Peter writes a letter to different nationalitys
and calls them the _"elect of God"_ because they have been
"washed in the blood of the Lamb"__ like we have been.
So, Israel_"and"_the church_"are"_Gods elect!!
Jesus has one bride! He created the miracle of uniting Jew and
Gentile alike into one bride. Let’s just "reason together", does it
make any sense that Jesus would rapture out a partial bride?
What parts would He take 1st? And then…what? Pick up the
other parts later – with whatever the results the 144K Jews are
able to accomplish during the 7 years? Why would Jesus remove
And… if He was going to do this, don’t you think He would have
told us? At least one verse stating that He was going to take some
out 1st? Jesus said in Mark 13:23, "I have foretold you all
things." He would have told us!! And do you suppose Jesus
would have the marriage feast with His "raptured" church (bride),
without the tribulation saints, the Old Testament saints, the
prophets or the 144K?? Let’s think about this, are we really
this special?_ Compared to them?_I think not!
I am going to add a few scriptures, (that were not mentioned at
this conference) that are also used to support the pre-tribulation
rapture, so that you will have a complete list of all the verses,
assumptions and analogys this "brand new" doctrine was based on:
1. I Thes.5:2 "…the Day of the Lord so cometh as a "thief
in the night." But is not valid to be used for "pre-trib" because
this happens after the "6th vial" is poured out at the end of
the tribulation, after Rev. 16:12, then Jesus says in Rev.16:15,
"Behold, I come as a thief."_Its after the tribulation, at the
2nd Coming of Christ.
2. Matt. 24:40, is another one,_"…One shall be taken, and
the other left."_Jesus made this statement just minutes after
He had just told them "Immediately after the tribulation
of those days…" (Matt.24:29). Thats when "one will be taken and
and the other left." Not seven years before!
3. The ‘Noah’ analogy__Many analogys are used by the Pre-
Trib Rapture teachers, for lack of scripture proof (like, not one).
However, Noah is their main one, so I will deal only with this one.
Everyone is aware of the fact that Noah warned the people that
a flood is coming and to repent, but _they refused to listen.
The Pre-Trib Rapture teachers say "thats like the Rapture", so
as Noah was saved out of the flood, we are going to be "Raptured"
out of the Tribulation. Its an analogy!!_ It Proves nothing!
The Post-Trib ‘Noah’ analogy_We, the Post-Tribulation
Rapture teachers, are warning you that a flood is coming
(the Tribulation) , but you refuse to listen, just like in the
days of Noah.But Instead of a flood of water, it’s a flood of Satanic
deception that started with a little wave in 1830 with the brand new
pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. today this wave of deception has
covered the entire western world and has blinded us to the huge
wave that may soon be upon us. Because millions refuse to hear
the truth, many will fall in this dark time, and be deceived into
taking the "Mark of the Beast" and be forever lost. However,
post-trib rapture teachers don’t have to use analogys to prove
their view. But even with two dozen solid scriptures, the people
still _refuse to listen!!
4. Mark 13:32, is also used_ "But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man…" _Jesus told them this a few minutes after
telling them in Mark 13:24 "…in those days after that tribulation,
the sun shall be darkned, and the moon shall not give her light…"
And goes on to say in Mark 13:28-29 that we will know this day is
close because next He says in Mark 13:30, that the generation
that sees these things (the tribulation events He just spoke of),
would, (back to Mark 13:26-27) "…see the Son of man coming in
the clouds…to gather His elect from the…uttermost parts of the
earth…" We still will not know the exact day, only that it is close.
This is the 2nd coming of Christ after the tribulation.
Some people ask me, "why is it that the vast majority of
Christians believe in the "pre-trib"?_When Jesus came to the
earth once, the vast majority of the religious people
(the church) of that time, rejected him, even after many Old
Testament prophecys fortold of this event. But they did not want
a suffering Messiah, they wanted a conquering king. In this
case the vast majority was wrong!! today, today, we want the
Messiah to take us out before a certain event, not after!! But,
guess what, we don’t get to choose. He only comes to the earth
two times (Heb 9:28). Once as a suffering Messiah, and then as a
conquering KING at the 2nd Coming of Christ.
We soon may be entering the last seven years of this age, the 70th
week of Daniel. We will not be ‘up in the bleachers’ (as our
endtime preachers would have us believe) and we need not fear,
God is with us. Jesus said "…I will build my church; and
the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18)
No mater what view we hold, we still need to accept each other as
Christians. Those of us that hold to the post-tribulation rapture
view, should not be thought of as troublemakers, we are only
concerned that millions may fall during this time, a time when we
(the church) can be used by God. "..The people that do know their
God shall be strong, and do exploits. And they that understand
among the people shall instruct many…" (Daniel 11:32-33)
And, then we can be overcomers as in Rev. 7:9,13,14 "…a great
mulitude, which no man could number, of all nations.."
v-13 ( paraphrased) "…who are these people and where did
they come from?" _ Then v-14, "…these are they which
came out of great tribulation, and washed their robes, and
made them white in the Blood of the Lamb."
Print this article_think about it!_The nine scriptures used
by these three pastors was all they had to prove the "pre-trib"
rapture in a_ six hour_ conference.?? Something is wrong!!
to read brief quotes from the early
church fathers on what they believed and taught on the 2nd
Coming of Christ, and the Antichrist. Most of these apostles and
teachers lifespan overlaped each other from the year 30 to 1900.
"Early Church Fathers" earlychurchbelief.blogspot.com/
Very brief answers on the Eternal Security Doctrine (OSAS).
"Eternal Security ?" osas-question.blogspot.com/
The 1st four of God’s 7-angels that execute the seal, trump,
and vial plagues are the, "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse,"
The antichrist empire that will center in the middle east is the,
"Endtime Beast Empire," endtimebeast.blogspot.com/
Mystery Babylon (Rome) the mother of harlots,
On The Scarlet Beast" ancient-harlot.blogspot.com/
Roger Armstrong… firstname.lastname@example.org
Read, "GLORY TRAIN"-A Play, by Dr. Gavin Finley. A drama
on a endtime theme, endtimepilgrim.org/glorytrain.htm
Dr. Finley has several links on the Post-Tribulation Rapture topic,
AKA-"The 2nd Coming of Christ."
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